Image via WikipediaIndian Holocaust My Father`s Life and Time - Four Hundred Forty One
Palash Biswas
http://indianholocaustmyfatherslifeandtime.blogspot.com/
Illegal personal accounts in foreign banks of dishonest industrialists, scandalous politicians and corrupt IAS, IRS, IPS officers have a sum of around $ 1500 million - an amount about 13 times larger than the country's foreign debt. With this amount, 45 crore poor people can get Rs 1, 00,000 each.
Recently, due to international pressure, the Swiss government agreed to disclosed the names of the account holders, but only if the respective governments formally asked for it. The Indian government is not asking for the details.Just fr the shake of Eyewashing, the Governement of India diverts the Black Money Focus in Income Tax Exercise which has Never been any Liability of the Hindu Zionsist Ruling Class. FDI Raj and War Civil War Economy cretes the Black Money day by day. The Hegemony seems to cover up the Weath Drain!Ordinary Indians may not be exactly aware of how such secret accounts operate and what are the rules and regulations that go on to govern such tax havens. However, one may well be aware of 'Swiss bank accounts,' the shorthand for murky dealings, secrecy and of course pilferage from developing countries into rich developed ones.
In fact, some finance experts and economists believe tax havens to be a conspiracy of the western world against the poor countries. By allowing the proliferation of tax havens in the 20th century, the western world explicitly encourages the movement of scarce capital from the developing countries to the rich.
Is India a poor Country? Revelation of Swiss Bank Accounts
This is so shocking. If black money deposits were an Olympics event, India would have won a gold medal hands down.
Ø Russia, the second best, has four times less deposit.
Ø US do not even figure in the top five!
Ø India has more money in Swiss banks than all the other countries combined!!!! !!!!
s India poor? Ask Swiss banks with personal account deposit bank of $1500 billion in foreign reserve which have been misappropriated. Considering that the amount is 13 times larger than the country's foreign debt, one need to rethink if India is indeed a poor country.
This huge amount has been appropriated from the people of India by exploiting and betraying them.
Once this huge amount of black money comes back to India , the entire foreign debt can be repaid in 24 hours. After paying the entire foreign debt, we will have surplus amount, almost 12 times larger than the foreign debt. If this surplus amount is invested in earning interest, the amount of interest will be more than the annual budget of the Central government. So even if all the taxes are abolished, then too the Central government will be able to maintain the country very comfortably.
Some 80,000 people travel to Switzerland every year, of which 25,000 travel very frequently. 'Obviously, these people won't be tourists. They must be traveling there for some other reason,' believes an official involved in tracking illegal money. And, clearly, he isn't referring to the commerce ministry bureaucrats who've been flitting in and out of Geneva ever since the World Trade Organization (WTO) negotiations went into a tailspin!
Black money in Swiss banks -- Swiss Banking Association report, 2006 details bank deposits in the territory of Switzerland by nationals of following countries:
Top Five:
1. India ---- $1,456 billion
2. Russia ---$ 470 billion
3. UK -------$390 billion
4. Ukraine - $100 billion
5. China -----$ 96 billion
Now do the math's - India with $1456 billion or $1.4 trillion has more money in Swiss banks than rest of the world combined.
Public loot since 1947: Can we bring back our money? It is one of the biggest loots witnessed by mankind -- the loot of the Aam Aadmi (common man) since 1947, by his brethren occupying public office.
It has been orchestrated by politicians, bureaucrats and some businessmen. The list is almost all-encompassing. No wonder, everyone in India loots with impunity and without any fear. What is even more depressing in that this ill-gotten wealth of ours has been stashed away abroad into secret bank accounts located in some of the world's best known tax havens? And to that extent the Indian economy has been stripped of its wealth.
In March 2005, the Tax Justice Network (TJN) published a research finding demonstrating that $11.5 trillion of personal wealth was held offshore by rich individuals across the globe. The findings estimated that a large proportion of this wealth was managed from some 70 tax havens. Further, augmenting these studies of TJN, Raymond Baker -- in his widely celebrated book titled 'Capitalism' s Achilles Heel: Dirty Money and How to Renew the Free Market System' -- estimates that at least $5 trillion have been shifted out of poorer countries to the West since the mid-1970.
It is further estimated by experts that 1 % of the world's population holds more than 57 % of total global wealth, routing it invariably through these tax havens. How much of this is from India is anybody's guess. What is to be noted here is that most of the wealth of Indians parked in these tax havens is illegitimate money acquired through corrupt means.
India, Switzerland conclude talks to revise tax treaty
31 Jul 2010, 0839 hrs IST,ET Bureau
NEW DELHI: The government has concluded the renegotiation for widening the ambit of its tax treaty with Switzerland to access information on Swiss bank accounts, a big step towards tracing Indian money stashed away overseas.
The tax treaty has been amended on the lines of the OECD Model Tax Convention, which means it will not provide for roving enquiries, or fishing expeditions as they are commonly called.
The revised agreement is expected to be taken up by the Cabinet shortly, a senior official with the Central Board of Direct Taxes said.
The new treaty will be notified by India immediately after it is signed, but the Swiss authorities will be able to put the agreement into effect only after it is ratified by their Parliament.
India’s income-tax authorities will be able to access information on Swiss bank accounts of Indians more easily, but only in specific cases where they have a prima facie evidence of wrongdoing.
For example, I-T sleuths can now source data on bank accounts used to acquire stakes in some Indian Premier League franchisees. The availability of information would help the I-T department in its investigation.
The Enforcement Directorate has already issued show cause notices to some Indian citizens for maintaining banks accounts in Switzerland and the government has initiated steps to elicit requisite information from Swiss authorities.
“The renegotiation of the double taxation avoidance agreement (DTAA) between India and Swiss Confederation has been concluded. The matter is being actively pursued for early entry into force of the amended DTAA,” finance minister Pranab Mukherjee said on Friday in reply to a query in Lok Sabha.
The government had approached Switzerland in April 2009 to renegotiate the DTAA to get access to information on bank accounts.
Switzerland has also amended tax treaties with the US, France and Italy.
The issue of tainted money stashed away in Swiss bank accounts had taken centre stage during general elections in India last year and has again come to limelight after the US entered into a deal with leading Swiss bank UBS on information exchange on tax evaders.
The information exchange in this case was under a deferred prosecution agreement between UBS and the US department of justice and not US-Swiss DTAA.
India is pursuing the issue of exchange of information with other countries as well and would seek amendment in tax treaties with them. The move is in line with a decision taken at the G-20, which took up the issue of tax havens.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/personal-finance/tax-savers/tax-news/India-Switzerland-conclude-talks-to-revise-tax-treaty/articleshow/6239322.cms
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| The government suspects that a Pune-based horse trader has put away money in Swiss banks. Seetha looks at how much Indian money is stashed in Swiss bank accounts | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
The case of Hassan Ali Khan, the Pune-based horse trader under investigation for financial skullduggery, may be taking unexpected twists but it puts the spotlight back on one question — just how much money is leaving Indian shores illegally and into secure vaults in Switzerland and fake companies in Mauritius, besides other safe havens? The answer, quite simply, is that no one knows. The only information that the government does have is that some 80,000 people travel to Switzerland every year, of whom 25,000 travel very frequently. “Obviously, these people won’t be tourists. They must be travelling there for some other reason,” believes an official involved in tracking illegal money. And, clearly, he isn’t referring to the commerce ministry bureaucrats who’ve been flitting in and out of Geneva ever since the World Trade Organisation negotiations went into a tailspin! The minimum balance in a Swiss bank, sources say, has to be $10 million. Assuming that at least 10,000 of the frequent fliers to Switzerland have illegal bank accounts (that is, without the permission of the Reserve Bank of India) there, that should translate into a minimum of $100 billion stashed away in Switzerland alone. Don’t even begin to ask about money invested through $1 companies in Mauritius (the favourite destination of Indians) and other tax havens such as St Kitts, the Cayman Islands, Channel Islands and British Virgin Islands, though these are more popular with westerners. A big chunk is slush money — bribes paid to politicians and bureaucrats — and money that has been obtained through illegal means. Illegal money means cash from white collar crime (a stock market scamster was found to have spirited away a lot of his ill-gotten wealth there) and other offences such as drug smuggling, gun running, illegal sex trade and trading in protected wildlife, to name just a few.
Money laundering — the process by which illegal money is made legitimate — is a huge business. A 2005 anti-money laundering survey by consulting firm KPMG estimated the amount of money laundered globally to be between $590 billion and $1.5 trillion. That was nearly 2-5 per cent of the global economy. Money laundering is now a recognised crime in India, following the passage of the Prevention of Money Laundering Act (PMLA), 2005. Not all the nest eggs in Swiss banks contain tainted money, however. There’s a fair amount of legally earned money that is parked abroad to avoid taxes in India and circumvent foreign exchange holding limits (you’re not allowed to take more than $10,000 overseas, of which only $5,000 can be in cash). The Foreign Exchange Management Act (FEMA), 1999, sets out various restrictions on how much money and assets Indians can hold abroad. Respected businessmen, well-known politicians and senior bureaucrats rub shoulders with scamsters and criminals in the murky world of financial fraud. It’s not rare to find the owner of a noted business house defaulting on dues to investors and banks yet living it up while abroad. In the early 1990s, several Indian politicians and bureaucrats were alleged to have figured in a list of account holders of the Luxembourg-incorporated Bank of Credit and Commerce International, which went belly up. Getting money out of India (or keeping it out) is no big deal — if one has the right contacts and sources. Despite various steps to check it — mainly the PMLA and FEMA — the hawala trade is thriving. You can hand over some money in India to one agent, who will ensure that you get money during your next trip abroad from another trusted agent. Opening a Swiss bank account too is no big deal. All you need is a valid passport and $10 million and you can go either directly to the bank or use a broker. There is a lot of paper work involved but nothing that will scare depositors away. Once an account — either numbered, which costs more, or with your name — is created, you are assured of complete privacy. Swiss bankers are not even supposed to reveal that you are a client, let alone the details of your account. So once you have a Swiss bank account, all you have to do is to ensure that whatever money you want to conceal is deposited there. There’s no way any government can get to that. But secrecy has always had its limits. If a citizen of a country has been involved in a crime, the government can approach the Swiss courts to order banks to reveal details of bank accounts. If the courts waive the secrecy clause, the banks will have to disclose the identity and certain other details of the account. There’s a catch, of course. The crime will have to be recognised as an offence in Switzerland as well. Officials of the Enforcement Directorate, the government agency responsible for tracking violations of India’s foreign exchange regulations, say that that has never been a problem. “Their list of crimes is larger than ours,” says one official. Swiss courts are particularly tough on corruption cases and those involved in the narcotics trade. After 9/11, with the battle against money laundering taking on global dimensions, opening a Swiss bank account has become a tad difficult. Banks, say Indian officials, are beginning to ask more questions and are being more cautious in taking customers. For Indians, the passing of the PMLA and FEMA (both of which are enforced by the Enforcement Directorate) have made spiriting money abroad more difficult. The government is also beefing up its detection machinery. The ED gets information from various sources — its own sources, complaints from the public, information other investigating agencies chance upon — which it looks into. But it is the setting up of the Financial Intelligence Unit (FIU) in the finance ministry that has come as a major leg-up in the fight against illegal money. The FIU is part of a global Financial Action Task Force (FATF), an inter-governmental body to check money laundering and the financing of terrorism. FIUs in different countries will cross-check information, making the anonymous movement of funds across borders that much more difficult. Within India, the FIU functions as an intermediary between banks and the ED. Banks have to give information on certain listed suspicious transactions to the FIU, which will analyse it to detect any irregularities. So if you have spread your murky dealings across different banks, the FIU, where all the information comes, could well latch on to you. The information is then passed on to the ED, which then investigates the matter further and either drops the matter if everything is above board or proceeds under FEMA or PMLA. Clearly, Hassan Ali Khan and others of his ilk have to get more careful. Arms Against Money Laundering
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Banking in Switzerland
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Swiss Bank" redirects here. For the former bank, see Swiss Bank Corporation.
All banks in Switzerland are regulated by Swiss Financial Market Supervisory Authority (FINMA), which derives its authority from a series of federal statutes. The country's tradition of bank secrecy, which dates to the Middle Ages, was first codified in a 1934 law.[2]
As of 11 October 2008[update], the banking industry in Switzerland has an average leverage ratio (assets/networth) of 29 to 1, while the industry's short-term liabilities are equal to 260% of the Swiss GDP or 1,273% of the Swiss national debt.[3]
Contents[hide] |
[edit] Overview
Switzerland is a prosperous nation with a gross domestic product (GDP) higher than that of some larger western European nations. In addition, the value of the Swiss franc (CHF) has been relatively stable compared to that of other currencies.[4] In 2009, the financial sector comprised 11.6% of Switzerland's GDP and employed approximately 195,000 people (136,000 of whom work in the banking sector); this represents about 5.6% of the total Swiss workforce. Furthermore, Swiss banks employ an estimated 103,000 people abroad.[5]Swiss neutrality and national sovereignty, long recognized by foreign nations, have fostered a stable environment in which the banking sector was able to develop and thrive. Switzerland has maintained neutrality through both World Wars, is not a member of the European Union, and was not even a member of the United Nations until 2002.[6][7]
Currently an estimated one-third of all funds held outside the country of origin (sometimes called "offshore" funds) are kept in Switzerland. In 2001 Swiss banks managed US$ 2.6 trillion. The following year they handled US$400 billion less which has been attributed to both a bear market and stricter regulations on Swiss banking.[8] By 2007 this figure has risen to roughly 6.7 trillion Swiss francs (US$6.4 trillion).
The Bank of International Settlements, an organization that facilitates cooperation among the world's central banks, is headquartered in the city of Basel. Founded in 1930, the BIS chose to locate in Switzerland because of the country's neutrality, which was important to an organization founded by countries that had been on both sides of World War I.[9]
Foreign banks operating in Switzerland manage 870 billion Swiss francs worth of assets (as of May 2006[update]).[10]
[edit] Law and regulation
The Swiss Financial Market Supervisory Authority (FINMA) is a public law institution that supervises most banking-related activities as well as securities markets and investment funds.[11] Regulatory authority is derived from the Swiss Financial Market Supervision Act (FINMASA) and Article 98 of the Swiss Federal Constitution.The office of the Swiss Banking Ombudsman, founded in 1993, is sponsored by the Swiss Banking Ombudsman Foundation, which was established by the Swiss Bankers Association. The ombudsman's services, which are offered free of charge, include mediation and assistance to persons searching for dormant assets. The ombudsman handles about 1,500 complaints raised against banks yearly.[12]
[edit] Statutes
[edit] Banking law of 1934
The Swiss Parliament passed the Banking Law of 1934, which codified the rules of secrecy and criminalizes violation of it. The secrecy provisions were not included in the first draft of the law, which mainly concerned administrative matters such as bank supervision. The provisions, found in Article 47(b), were added before passage of the bill due to Nazi authorities' attempts to investigate the assets of Jews and "enemies of the state" held in Switzerland.[13][edit] Electronic payments
Swiss banks, as well as the post office (which handles some financial transactions) use an electronic payments system known as Swiss Interbank Clearing (SIC). The system is supervised by the Swiss National Bank and is operated via a joint venture.[14] SIC handled over 250 million transactions in 2005, with a turnover value of 41 trillion Swiss francs.[15][edit] Major banks
As of 2008, there are 327 authorized banks and securities dealers in Switzerland,[16] ranging from the "Two Big Banks" down to small banks serving the needs of a single community or a few special clients.UBS AG and Credit Suisse are respectively the largest and second largest Swiss banks and account for over 50% of all deposits in Switzerland; each has extensive branch networks throughout the country and most international centres.
Due to their size and complexity, UBS and Credit Suisse are subject to an extra degree of supervision from the Federal Banking Commission.[17]
[edit] UBS
Main article: UBS AG
UBS came into existence in June 1998, when Union Bank of Switzerland, founded in 1862, and Swiss Bank Corporation, founded in 1872, merged. Headquartered in Zürich and Basel, it is Switzerland's largest bank. It maintains seven main offices around the world (four in the United States and one each in London, Tokyo, and Hong Kong) and branches on five continents.[18]As of 2008[update], UBS had a net loss of CHF27.56 billion, a market capitalization of over CHF43 billion, and 77,783 employees.[19]
[edit] Credit Suisse
Main article: Credit Suisse
Credit Suisse is the second-largest Swiss bank. Based in Zürich, it was founded in 1856; its market capitalization (as of 2007[update]) is $95.2 billion, and the company has about 40,000 employees. Credit Suisse Group offers private banking, investment banking and asset management services. It acquired The First Boston Corporation in 1988 and merged with the Winterthur insurance company in 1997; the latter was sold to AXA in 2006.[20] The asset management services were sold to Aberdeen Asset Management in 2008 during the GFC[edit] Central Bank
Main article: Swiss National Bank
The Swiss National Bank (SNB) serves as the country's central bank. Founded by the Federal Act on the Swiss National Bank (16 January 1906), it began conducting business on 20 June 1907. Its shares are publicly traded, and are held by the cantons, cantonal banks, and individual investors; the federal government does not hold any shares.[21] Although a central bank often has regulatory authority over the country's banking system, the SNB does not; regulation is solely the role of the Federal Banking Commission.[22]
[edit] Private banks - Private bankers
The term private bank refers to a bank that offers private banking services and in its legal form is a partnership. The first private banks were created in St. Gallen in the mid 1700s and in Geneva in the late 1700s as partnerships, and some are still in the hands of the original families such as Hottinger and Mirabaud. In Switzerland, such private banks are called private bankers (a protected term) to distinguish them from the other private banks which are typically shared corporations.[edit] Cantonal banks
There are, as of 2006, 24 cantonal banks; these banks are state-guaranteed semi-governmental organizations controlled by one of Switzerland's 26 cantons that engage in all banking businesses.[23] The largest cantonal bank, the Zürich Cantonal Bank, had a 2005 net income of CHF 810 million.[24][edit] Banking privacy
Swiss bank secrecy does protect the privacy of bank clients; the protections afforded under Swiss law are similar to confidentiality protections between doctors and patients or lawyers and their clients. The Swiss government views the right to privacy as a fundamental principle that should be protected by all democratic countries. While privacy is protected, in practice all bank accounts are linked to an identified individual. Moreover, the bank secrecy is not absolute. It does not protect terrorist or criminals from prosecution since a prosecutor or judge may issue a "lifting order" in order to grant law enforcement access to information relevant to a criminal investigation.[25][edit] Taxation
Main article: Taxation in Switzerland
Swiss law distinguishes between tax evasion (non-reporting of income) and tax fraud (active deception). International legal assistance used to be granted only with respect to tax fraud. Under pressure from the OECD and the G20, the Swiss government decided in March 2009 to abolish the distinction between tax evasion and tax fraud in dealings with foreign clients. Switzerland adheres to the international OECD standards with regard to administrative assistance in tax matters (decision to take over the OECD Model Tax Convention, in particular Article 26) [26]For Swiss taxpayers the distinction remains in place. Although not considered a crime and hence not prosecuted in a penal court, tax evasion is a serious offence under Swiss tax law and hefty financial penalties apply. In domestic prosecutions, banking secrecy may be lifted by court order in cases of tax fraud or particularly severe cases of tax evasion.[27]
[edit] European Union
Pressure on Switzerland has been applied by several states and international organizations attempting to alter the Swiss privacy policy. The European Union, whose member countries geographically surround Switzerland, has complained about member states' nationals using Swiss banks to avoid taxation in their home countries. The EU has long sought a harmonized tax regime among its member states, although many Swiss banking officials (and, according to some polls, the public) are resisting any such changes.[28]However Switzerland did not want to be seen as an obstacle to closer tax cooperation among EU-member states and decided to support the international efforts to adequately tax cross-border investment income. The retention tax agreed with the European Union (EU) in the taxation of savings income agreement is a suitable and efficient means of doing so. The EU is committed to eliminating existing loopholes in the system of taxation of savings income. Switzerland has expressed to the EU its willingness in principle to correspondingly adjust the taxation of savings income. Here it should be noted that Switzerland has adopted the OECD standard on administrative assistance and that the Federal Council rejects the automatic exchange of information.[29] Since July 1, 2005, Switzerland has charged a withholding tax on all interest earned in the personal Swiss accounts of European Union residents.
Switzerland is not a member of the European Union but, since December 2008,[30] is a part of the Schengen agreement.
[edit] United States
Swiss bank accounts cannot be opened without the holder signing a legal document asserting that they have no outstanding financial obligations to the IRS. Despite this, Swiss banks have been criticized for improperly shielding individuals practicing tax evasion.In January 2003, the United States Department of Treasury announced a new information-sharing agreement under the already extant U.S.-Swiss Income Tax Convention;[31] the agreement was intended to facilitate more effective tax information exchange between the two countries.[32] However, Swiss policy has continued to come under international criticism, and in March 2009 Switzerland agreed to renegotiate more effective tax cooperation with the United States and other countries.[33]
[edit] Money laundering
There are several measures in place to counter money laundering. The Money Laundering Act sets forth requirements of account holders' identification, and requires reporting of any suspicious transactions to the Money Laundering Reporting Office.[34]According to the CIA World Factbook, Switzerland is "a major international financial center vulnerable to the layering and integration stages of money laundering; despite significant legislation and reporting requirements, secrecy rules persist and nonresidents are permitted to conduct business through offshore entities and various intermediaries..."[35] However, Switzerland's cooperation in transnational financial issues has been praised by several major U.S. officials. A Federal Bureau of Investigation anti-terrorism official noted that Switzerland was one of several countries to participate in joint task forces targeting financing of Al-Qaeda terrorist cells; a former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury praised Swiss cooperation and the country's assistance in the finding and freezing of terrorist and Iraqi assets.[36]
[edit] Numbered bank accounts
Main article: Numbered bank account
Some bank accounts are afforded an extra degree of privacy. Information concerning such accounts, known as numbered accounts, is restricted to senior bank officers, rather than being accessible to all the employees of a bank. However, the information required to open such an account is no different from that of an ordinary account; completely anonymous accounts are not allowed by law. Should a criminal investigation take place, law enforcement has access to information related to a numbered account in the same way it has access to information about any other account.[37][edit] Swiss Banks and World War II
Several inquiries have been made into the conduct of Swiss banks during the Nazi Germany period (1933–1945), especially regarding funds deposited by or allegedly stolen from victims of the Holocaust. The campaign causing the highest outlays ($1.25 billion in 1999) on the part of the Swiss banking industry as of 2009 was the World Jewish Congress lawsuit against Swiss banks launched by Edgar Bronfman, president of the World Jewish Congress, in concert with US Senator Alfonse d'Amato of New York.[38]The audit run by the Volcker commission which resulted from this lawsuit cost CHF 300 million and gave its final report in December 1999. It determined that the 1999 book value of all dormant accounts possibly belonging to victims of Nazi persecution that were unclaimed, closed by the Nazis, or closed by unknown persons was CHF 95 million. Of this total, CHF 24 million were "probably" related to victims of Nazi persecution. [39] In addition the commission found "no proof of systematic destruction of records of victim accounts, organized discrimination against the accounts of victims of Nazi persecution, or concerted efforts to divert the funds of victims of Nazi persecution to improper purposes." It also "confirmed evidence of questionable and deceitful actions by some individual banks in the handling of accounts of victims". [39]
In response to the lawsuit, the Swiss government commissioned an independent panel of international scholars known as the Bergier Commission to study the relationship between Switzerland and the Nazi regime. It reached similar conclusions about the banks' conduct in its final report,[40] and found that trade with Nazi Germany did not significantly prolong the war.[40]
[edit] International competition
See also: Offshore bank
With recent changes in the Swiss bank secrecy regime, other states, such as Singapore, have attracted depositors seeking privacy and protection. Having taken steps to make its banks more attractive, Singapore strengthened penalties for violators of bank secrecy (and now imposes steeper fines and longer jail sentences for offenders), and modified its laws on trusts and inheritance. Singapore is also now the location of Credit Suisse's international banking headquarters.[41][edit] See also
- List of Banks in Switzerland
- List of Swiss financial market legislation
- Offshore bank
- Societe Internationale v. Rogers
- Swiss franc
- World Jewish Congress lawsuit against Swiss Banks
- Swiss Bankers Association
[edit] References
- ^ Swiss Television (in german): 880 billion illegal money in swiss from 08.02.2010
- ^ Gumbel, Peter (2002-09-08). "Silence Is Golden". Time Magazine. http://www.time.com/time/search/article/0,8599,348968,00.html. Retrieved 2006-06-16.
- ^ Norris, Floyd (2008-10-11). "The World’s Banks Could Prove Too Big to Fail — or to Rescue". The New York Times. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/11/business/worldbusiness/11charts.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&referer=sphere_related_content&referer=sphere_related_content&oref=slogin. Retrieved 2010-03-31.
- ^ "The World Factbook - Switzerland - Economy". Central Intelligence Agency. http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sz.html#Econ. Retrieved 2006-06-16.
- ^ "The Economic Significance of the Swiss Finanicial Centre". November 2009. http://www.swissbanking.org/en/20091119-2400-factsheet_finanzplatz_schweiz_de-rva.pdf. Retrieved 2010-05-10.
- ^ "The World Factbook - Switzerland - Introduction". Central Intelligence Agency. 2006-06-13. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/sz.html. Retrieved 2010-06-02.
- ^ "Country profile: Switzerland". BBC News. 2006-03-26. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/country_profiles/1035212.stm. Retrieved 2006-06-17.
- ^ Cohn, Laura and Fairlamb, David (2003-10-27). "Swiss Banks: Paradise Lost". Bk. http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_43/b3855183_mz035.htm. Retrieved 2006-06-16.
- ^ "Origins: Why Basel?". Bank of International Settlements. http://www.bis.org/about/origins.htm. Retrieved 2006-06-16.
- ^ "Foreign Banks In Switzerland Manage CHF870 Billion In Assets". Dow Jones. 2006-05-29. http://story.europesun.com/p.x/ct/9/id/325aca900d830bd6/cid/88176adfdf246af5/. Retrieved 2006-06-15.
- ^ "About FINMA". Swiss Financial Market Supervisory Authority. http://www.finma.ch/e/finma/Pages/Ziele.aspx. Retrieved 2009-09-04.
- ^ "Swiss Banking Ombudsman". Swiss Banking Ombudsman. http://www.bankingombudsman.ch/english/index.htm. Retrieved 2006-06-17.
- ^ Mueller, Kurt (1969). "The Swiss Banking Secret: From a Legal View". The International and Comparative Law Quarterly 18 (2): 361–362. http://0-www.jstor.org.alicat.adelphi.edu/view/00205893/ap030072/03a00050/2?searchUrl=http%3a//www.jstor.org/search/BasicResults%3fhp%3d25%26si%3d1%26Query%3dbank%2bsecrecy%2bswitzerland&frame=noframe¤tResult=00205893%2bap030072%2b03a00050%2b0%2cFEFF07&userID=c0930c14@adelphi.edu/01cce44037287d10be86039bb&dpi=3&config=jstor.
- ^ "Electronic payments in Switzerland". Swiss National Bank. http://www.snb.ch/e/welt/portrait/banks/7.html. Retrieved 2006-06-16.
- ^ "SIC Statistics". Swiss Interbank Clearing. http://www.sic.ch/tkicch_home/tkicch_news/tkicch_news_statistics/tkicch_news_statistics_sic.htm. Retrieved 2006-06-16.
- ^ "Figures on Switzerland as a location for financial services". Federal Department of Finance. 2009-12-31. http://www.sif.admin.ch/dokumentation/00514/00515/00516/index.html?lang=en. Retrieved 2010-05-20.
- ^ "Supervision of large banking groups". Swiss Federal Banking Commission. http://www.ebk.admin.ch/e/ebk/taetigkeit/taetigkeit3.html. Retrieved 2006-06-17.
- ^ "UBS-Locations". UBS AG. http://www.ubs.com/1/e/about/locations.html. Retrieved 2006-06-19.
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- ^ "Company Profile" (PDF). Credit Suisse. http://www.creditsuisse.com/who_we_are/doc/company_profile_en.pdf. Retrieved 2006-06-17.
- ^ "The National Bank as a joint-stock company". Swiss National Bank. http://www.snb.ch/e/snb/aufsicht/aufsicht.html. Retrieved 2006-06-16.
- ^ "Players". Swiss Bankers Association. http://www.swissbanking.org/en/home/akteure.htm. Retrieved 2006-06-17.
- ^ "Bank groups". Swiss Bankers Association. http://www.swissbanking.org/en/home/fs-allgemein.htm. Retrieved 2006-06-17.
- ^ "ZKB Company Profile 2005" (PDF). Zürich Cantonal Bank. http://www.zkb.com/privatebank/aaa/pdf/cp-en.pdf. Retrieved 2006-06-17.
- ^ "Swiss Bank Secrecy" (PDF). Embassy of Switzerland in Washington, D.C.. http://www.swissemb.org/legal/BankingSecrecyFact.pdf. Retrieved 2006-06-16.
- ^ "Switzerland to adopt OECD standard on administrative assistance in fiscal matters". Federal Department of Finance. http://www.efd.admin.ch/00468/index.html?lang=en&msg-id=25863. Retrieved 2010-05-20.
- ^ Locher, Peter; Blumenstein, Ernst (2002) (in German). System des schweizerischen Steuerrechts (6th. ed.). Zürich: Schulthess. pp. 476. ISBN 3-7255-4342-9.
- ^ Gumbel, Peter (2002-09-08). "Silence Is Golden". Time Magazine. http://www.time.com/time/search/article/0,8599,348968,00.html. Retrieved 2006-06-16.
- ^ "taxation of saving income". Federal Department of Finance. http://www.efd.admin.ch/dokumentation/zahlen/00579/00608/00634/index.html?lang=en. Retrieved 2010-05-10.
- ^ "Switzerland To Open Bank Secrets to Russia". Pravda.ru. 2009-10-02. http://english.pravda.ru/world/europe/22-09-2009/109442-switzerland-0. Retrieved 2009-09-21.
- ^ "Treasury Announces Mutual Agreement with Switzerland Regarding Tax Information Exchange". U.S. Dept. of Treasury (KD-3795). 2003-01-24. http://www.treas.gov/press/releases/kd3795.htm. Retrieved 2008-06-20.
- ^ "U.S., Switzerland Agree to Facilitate Exchange of Tax Information". The United States Mission to the European Union. 2003-01-24. http://useu.usmission.gov/Article.asp?ID=3E4C7E04-37D9-4BA3-8668-D7B30918B2AB. Retrieved 2006-06-18.
- ^ Swiss to negotiate tax cooperation with US. The Associated Press, Wednesday, March 25, 2009; 12:49 PM
- ^ "Effective Legislation for Combating Money Laundering and the Financing of Terrorism" (PDF). Embassy of Switzerland in Washington, D.C.. http://www.swissemb.org/legal/EffMoneyLaundTerrorFact.pdf. Retrieved 2006-06-16.
- ^ "World Factbook - Switzerland - Transnational Issues". Central Intelligence Agency. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/sz.html#Issues. Retrieved 2006-06-16.
- ^ "U.S. Testimonials on Swiss Leadership in Combating Money Laundering and the Financing of Terrorism" (PDF). Embassy of Switzerland in Washington, D.C.. http://www.swissemb.org/legal/USTestSwiLead.pdf. Retrieved 2006-06-16.
- ^ "Swiss Banking Secrecy" (PDF). Embassy of Switzerland in Washington, D.C.. http://www.swissemb.org/legal/BankingSecrecyFact.pdf. Retrieved 2006-06-16.
- ^ Finkelstein, Norman. The Holocaust Industry. Verso, New York, Second paperback edition 2003, p. 90c.f.
- ^ a b Report on Dormant Accounts of Victims of Nazi Persecution in Swiss Banks Annex 4; and Part I paragraph 41
- ^ a b The Bergier Commission Final Report, page 442; and page 518
- ^ Taylor, Edward and Prystay, Cris (2006-02-06). "Singapore tax policy attracts Swiss account money". The Wall Street Journal. http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06037/651083.stm. Retrieved 2006-06-16.
[edit] External links
- / Swiss banking consultants
- The Swiss banking law, as amended, from KPMG
- Offshore Banking, Directory resource, from OTH
- The Swiss Financial Center, from swissworld.org
- swissbanking.org
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Author:Renegade Division
Feb
6
Recently I read a thread on Orkut and it was the usual rhetoric which goes around against Swiss banks which are holding billions of dollars of worth of money from third world countries like India and China.The thread cited this article “Is India poor, who says? Ask Swiss banks” on Merinews.com which got 25,000 hits in last 6 months, and you can see the clear anger in the comments section of the thread.
DISHONEST INDUSTRIALISTS, scandalous politicians and corrupt IAS, IRS, IPS officers have deposited in foreign banks in their illegal personal accounts a sum of about $ 1500 billion, which have been misappropriated by them. This amount is about 13 times larger than the country’s foreign debt. With this amount 45 crore poor people can get Rs 1,00,000 each. This huge amount has been appropriated from the people of India by exploiting and betraying them.This article makes me laugh, and when I am done laughing it makes me laugh again. First of all, I won’t even go into the morality of the stolen tax money. In a nutshell if you earned some money with your hard work, and a watch maker enters your house and fixes all the broken and slow watches in your house and then demands money, and if you refuse to pay that money and hide it somewhere, then that is not really stolen money.
Once this huge amount of black money and property comes back to India, the entire foreign debt can be repaid in 24 hours. After paying the entire foreign debt, we will have surplus amount, almost 12 times larger than the foreign debt. If this surplus amount is invested in earning interest, the amount of interest will be more than the annual budget of the Central government. So even if all the taxes are abolished, then also the Central government will be able to maintain the country very comfortably.
Anyways coming to the idea that somehow Indians will be able to get this money out of Swiss banks is stupid. The reason why Swiss banks have their mythical status is something people in India don’t really understand. Its called the concept of “Limited Government”. The govt did not foresee such a status and made laws protecting banks, rather government was restricted in creating any laws regarding enforcing policy on Swiss banks.
Swiss Bank
In fact when I explain that its the Liberty of the Swiss Bankers that government of Switzerland does not interferes with, they just don’t seem to get it. This is a classic scenario of clash between Western Ideals and Third world Ideals which happened during Danish Cartoon protest, when Danish PM refused to act against the newspaper, citing “Freedom of Speech”, and all Muslims were perplexed and unable to understand the concept. In their world, the Danish PM was not “unable to do anything”, rather “did not want to do anything, and supported it”. Similarly, for Indian citizens its really difficult to understand why the Swiss government allows their banks to run their businesses without interference. On the other hand, when I explained one zealous guy who wanted instant invasion on Switzerland to recover the money, that every Swiss national keeps guns, even Tanks in his house, and he will fight for his Nation till death, he instantly realized the seriousness of the situation. In his world, Swiss government refuses to act because they want to keep all the stolen money from the third world countries.
Now lets come to the topic. How to recover the money you claim was stolen from your country, and is kept in Swiss banks?
First of all you have to know whether the money stored there is in Dollars or Swiss Francs or in Rupees. If the money is in non-INR currency(especially dollar), then things are a bit different, and if the money is in Indian rupees, then things are a bit different.
Scenario 1: Money is in Non-INR currency
If the money is in dollars or Swiss Francs, that means this money was sometime in history was converted from Rupees to USD/CHF, then it was stored in that Swiss banks and is invested by the banks. So for all practical purposes that money is gone from Indian economy. Whenever money is taken out of economy, it could be because of people’s savings, or anything else, it reduces the money supply of the country, that means the value/purchasing power of existing currency increases. In simple words, if Alice, Bob and Cathy form an economy, and have $100 between them, with Alice having $50, Cathy having $50, and Bob having no money(for illustrative purposes), but a business proposal. Alice and Cathy can invest $50 each in Bob’s business.
Now what happens is Cathy burns her $50 down(or destroys them), does that mean the economy has lost half of its wealth? No! The economy has not half of its wealth, though the economy has lost half of its money supply, and mainstream Economists will tell you that losing money supply is the same as losing wealth, but its not true.
In the above example, the value of Alice’s $50 will double, that means the price of everything in their economy will come down by half because now there are only half the dollars chasing the same amount of goods. That means effectively it will make no difference to Bob if he receives $100 in a $100 economy, or $50 in a $50 economy.
In the situation of Indian money in Swiss banks, that money has been pulled out of Indian economy, the money supply has been reduced that much and prices in India have been adjusted and reduced that much. Every investment which remained in India became that much more profitable.
Sure if that money comes back to India some day by the people who put it there(no matter how ‘illegal’ it is), it will also benefit Indian Economy because now there is that much more private investment and expenditure in India. Sure the purchasing power/value of existing money and investments will go down, but then there is more money to compete with it.
So when is it not beneficial? I mean there must be some catch somewhere when that much money from the economy goes away. Well there is a catch, when the money comes back, and govt gets it all, then it will be disaster for the economy, because the government will spend it in places where it gets more votes, like building a Pyramid, or providing flying cars to all the poor people in the economy. The free market would not have spent in these places, it totally screws up the investment of the private sector, and reduces their value of investment.
Yes with all that foreign currency you will be able to pay up India’s foreign debt, but that doesn’t really solve the problem. If you hand an alcoholic $1000 who is in debt of $1000, have you solved his alcohol problem? No, you just have solved his debt problem, but soon enough he will rebuild his debt, unless you cure his Alcohol problem. The problem of our foreign debt is Indian govt, even if you pay our debt 12 times, Indian govt will borrow it more and create same amount of debt 13th time.
Scenario 2: Money is in Indian Rupees
If this is the scenario then we shouldn’t even be remotely bothered with that money. Suggestions that with that money we will be able to get rid of our foreign debt in 24 hours is stupid. Do you realize what will happen if $1500 billion worth of Indian currency comes into the economy? MASSIVE INFLATION!
The price of everything will skyrocket. Even if you distribute all that money only to poor people, it will result in hyperinflation, because they will start competing with their money on basic commodities like food and grains. This will cause the commodities price to rise, the middle class will be forced to pull all its money from other goods to be spent on food, that means you can totally forget the sales of Cars, iPhones, even clothing, loan mortgages will be defaulted, houses will go for foreclosure, school fees will not be able to paid. Basically if Swiss bank tomorrow pays all the money back to India, our economy will be screwed with that much influx of Rupees.
Secondly the bigger question in front of us is, do we really need Money from Swiss banks if its in Rupees? We already have printing press in RBI, and they can print $1500 Billion dollars worth Indian rupee anyday Indian people demand. Its not like Swiss Banks have our gold, they have OUR PAPER, the paper RBI printed, they can print more of it.
So how true is the proposition that once we get all our money from Swiss Banks we will be able to draw heaven on earth in India? Well there is not even an iota of reality in what they plan to achieve if Indian government gets the money of the private individuals. Taxes can be reduced to Zero EVEN NOW, and govt will still continue to function through inflation of Money supply.
DISCLAIMER: None of the above given suggestions have my support, all I am trying to do is to use principles of Economics to correctly conclude the patriotic masturbation done by loyal Indians.
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1 views18 Responses to “How to get back India's money from Swiss banks?”
RawThinkTank Says:
February 6th, 2009 at 11:57 am This article shows how important it is to control inflation by fixing basic commodities prices. ie. oil water, mines cement, minerals, air waves routes etc etc, basically everything that humans get free from nature.Barbarindian Says:
February 6th, 2009 at 1:55 pm What has money supply got to do with law enforcement?India may not be able to coerce Swiss banks into providing info, but there are other ways to get around the problem. What is credited there must have been debited elsewhere.
Dsylexic Says:
February 6th, 2009 at 5:21 pm yeah -you arent thinking much @raw thunk tank.and your understanding of the nature of inflation is horribly wrong.
renegade_division Says:
February 6th, 2009 at 8:30 pm @Rawthinktank:This is a very stupid proposition. Everything unclaimed in nature is free, but when you mix your labor in it, there has to be a price attached to it. Air is free, but if you were doing the job of capturing air and putting them in bottles, and supply it to people who live underground, you will need to charge a money on that. Otherwise if people are forced to provide free air for free, nobody will supply air to anyone then.
I really hate it when leftists say(yeah in case if you didn’t know its a classic leftist platform), “water used to be free, but now they are charging for it”, well who is telling them to go and buy water from anywhere, just drink whatever you can get. But if you wanna drink from those bottles it won’t be free, because someone put their labor in filling up the bottles and supplying it to you.
Anyways this will be hijacking of the comment section. I am not going to discuss this issue anymore.
@Barbarindian said:
I have no idea what are you talking about.
Yeah you are right. Swiss banks don’t keep drug money, organized crime money, and laundered money. So any money which is stored in there is white money, or black money which was accumulated by evading taxes, doing govt corruption.
Now lets say this money was not paid as a bribe or saved from taxes rather than it was just put into someone’s savings account, and presume tax are zero for the discussion. What is the net effect the two situations, in one situation they put it in savings and perhaps never took it out, not in any bank, in other they put it in a foreign bank?
And btw I did write two scenarios that if we get the money back, and its in foreign currency, unless private individuals somehow get it, it would only screw the economy, if its in Indian currency, then we are better good NOT having that money, because we don’t need it.
Arvind Says:
February 7th, 2009 at 3:18 am I don’t want to sound like I’m pouring cold water on the claims of the author, but it does seem to me that the idealism of the author has resulted in reality being ignored.The Swiss banking system is a support system for terrorists, socialists, communists and dictators, not a refuge for those who want to hide their taxes. Most of their money comes from the same politicians who have imposed socialism on the people of a country. It is not from the people. In short, Swiss banks is where the Indian politicians led by the Nehru family have hidden their money. Swiss bank is not where the common Indian who was taxed hid his or her money. The common Indian converted it to gold and/or real estate or just opened bank accounts within India.
The Swiss banking families in an earlier period kept the money of pirates safe from their enemies. The pirates dropped iron chains across the Rhine river and collected “tolls” and “taxes.” Many of these pirate gangs built forts and operated in their territories.
Today, several terrorist groups use the Swiss banking system to funnel funds. All this is done with the full knowledge of the banks as well as the Swiss government which works together with the Swiss banks. To believe that the Swiss banks operate without any connection to governments, terrorists, dictators, communists, socialists, etc., is a naive view. As providers of financial infrastructure for ideologies like Islam and Communism, they are as much culpable for the deaths of people as the terrorists. A few years back, there was a news item about how they helped the Nazis hide the money they had robbed.
renegade_division Says:
February 7th, 2009 at 6:16 am @Arvind Said:As far as I can read your comment, you are just talking about the origin of the money held in Swiss banks, not the majority of the article which talks about what will happen when the money comes to India, irrespective of its origin. Although I will still deal with your points.
I don’t think anybody has imposed Socialism on India, Indians WANT Socialism, we have had a feudalist past, so when you give democracy to people, they vote to take away all the property from those who have too much of it for whatsoever reasons. Indians DO support Socialism, maybe in a limited form, maybe that is being reduced now, but they still are in that same mentality. Socialism doesn’t always mean you dress up in red and sing songs about one leader, socialism means for a common good, a common good is always trumped over an individual good.
Take for example if someone talks about privatization of Railways, everyone will revolt against the idea, raising the questions like “Railways are the mode of transportation for most of the poor people, what will happen if railways are privatized and private rail owners raise the prices of railways to really high? how will the poor travel from this part of the country to other”. Now this is Socialism, its about social good over individual good. As long as people keep on supporting Social goods, they will have to hand the power into a few hands using violence of state. As long as a person does not have a threat of competition over his head he will keep on siphoning money off to an offshore bank account.
Either way getting that money back into the hands of govt again will do more harm than good. The only situation where this would have been completely beneficial is if we followed gold standard, and the money comes back to private individuals rather than the state.
If you travel through my property, and I stop you and demand toll from you, am I being a pirate? It seems that the definition of property, the right to exclude other people from using it. Even when I do not provide you with any service on my property, there are no roads, you just walk through the raw land, I do have a right to charge you with money. So when pirates take money from the people they are simply collecting tolls like any other land owner.
Imagine if the river is not a river but a road. If someone was collecting tolls on that road you wouldn’t mind much paying that. So what is the big difference with the river? Is the only difference the fact that you have always treated rivers are public property? Well guess what someone privatized the river by building a huge fort next to it and dropping chains on the river.
I mean if you use Rhine river in it goes from Germany to Netherlands, and you are a German merchant, and when you enter Netherlands, it turns out that the river is blocked by Netherlands authorities and they want you to apply for a river permit, and pay a fees for it. I am sure you wouldn’t call Netherlands authorities “Pirates”. What is the difference, “people who extract money from you for using a part of river where they live”, what is the answer: a) “Netherlands Rhine River Commission” b) “Pirates”
Sure so you are saying that Swiss govt or Swiss banks knowingly support Terrorist groups. Ok, you gotta back this up with some substantial proof, because if I were a Swiss banker, there are only two reasons why I would do something like that. 1) Terrorist groups deposit HUGE amount of money in their banks, this literally get them massive amount of money, because otherwise they risk all their reputation, and risk to reward ration simply does not adds up to supporting terrorists. 2) They support Islamic terrorism, and want to have western countries attacked by it, and eventually they wanna support and finance the rise of Shariat in the world Because any other reason cannot make any non-islamic profit seeking private entrepreneur to support terrorism. But the problem is terrorist groups don’t need Lots of moeny, they need safe money. You don’t need a billion dollars to fund a terrorist attack, you need a million secure dollars, so that you make the payment to the family and for logistics and you don’t get caught while funding the operations, or later when there is an inquiry.
Giuseppe Says:
February 9th, 2009 at 5:53 am RawThinkTank, you’ve already been chewed up by everyone here, but I still don’t understand how you feel that’s reasonable. Fixing prices of basic commodities ensures that if a crop or stock dries up, or otherwise changes, it will either be consumed entirely (leaving none for anyone who wasn’t ‘first’ in line) or not consumed at all (because no one can afford it; or because there’s better substitutes at the price).Why don’t you believe that the free market is a good way of pricing goods? If you fixed everything that came from the Earth, we’d be totally out of consumable oil at this point, because no one would be willing to harvest the more difficult stuff. Unless you believe the government or your price-fixing body is smarter than the market?
Arvind Says:
February 9th, 2009 at 11:30 am I don’t think anybody has imposed Socialism on India, Indians WANT Socialism,India had free markets and Socialism was not imposed by the people. Rather, when the British left India, they hand picked a fellow-traveller named Jawaharlal Nehru who imposed socialism. You need to keep in mind that he was NOT elected but got power on a platter. Once you get power on a platter, you can cling on to it. You need to read up on Indian history. The common Indians did not care for the government imposed rules and there was a thriving free-market erroneously called “black market.”
we have had a feudalist past, so when you give democracy to people, they vote to take away all the property from those who have too much of it for whatsoever reasons.
This is the Marxist view - all past is feudalistic and that must be the cause of all ills. Socialism is a relatively new invention (has been around for 150 years) and is the result of Germans inventing it and the British farming it. In general, India has had more economic freedoms even under the monarchs.
I am sure you wouldn’t call Netherlands authorities “Pirates”.
How are you so sure? There is no difference between tax by a state and tax by an extortion gang. It is just that you wrongly ASSUME that others have a particular view. In fact, you need to read up the history of the Rhine river area. You have decided that the pirates were the owners of the Rhine river. It is clear you do not know the history of the area or else you would not make such a rash statement.
1) Terrorist groups deposit HUGE amount of money in their banks, this literally get them massive amount of money, because otherwise they risk all their reputation, and risk to reward ration simply does not adds up to supporting terrorists.
Correct. Terrorist groups like LTTE deposit massive amounts of money. Even more massive amounts are obtained from politicians like the Nehru family (fellow travellers). The bankers for the Nazis were the Swiss banks. These are well known facts that can easily be verified. You just need to go back and dig out news stories from 1997-1998 timeframe.
2) They support Islamic terrorism,
They don’t care one way or other for Islamic terrorists or terrorists of any other kind as long as they get their business.
Arvind Says:
February 9th, 2009 at 10:13 pm I dug one news item for you.http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article488064.ece
OSAMA BIN LADEN had use of an account at UBS, one of the biggest banks in Switzerland, even after he was designated a financier of international terrorism by the American Government. The revelation was made in a French courtroom yesterday during an investigation into one of the al-Qaeda chief’s half-brothers.
renegade_division Says:
February 10th, 2009 at 3:16 am @Arvind Said:I will be honest here that I don’t know much about pre-Independence economic liberties under British Rule. Although I do know about the policies introduced by Jawaharlal Nehru. And yes he did form majority of economy of India according to what he understood, and most people did not have an opinion about the kind of system they wanted.
But two things, first Nehru did not form Indian constitution, he might have influenced it but not formed it. Secondly, he was an elected leader, unless he was appointed by the Britishers, or someone else, and there was no voting done, or voting was done but he did not get majority of votes, he is an elected leader.
Just because 90% of the people voted for one leader does not automatically makes him a non-democratically elected leader. In a retrospect you look back and you feel pissed why so many people voted for him, even same people might feel sorry for voting for him, but that doesn’t mean at retroactively he became a non-democratically elected leader.
If there is a free and fair election(that is no physical coercion or threat of coercion is involved over the people), and a leader is elected, he is a valid leader in a democracy. If you disagree or in a hindsight it turns out to be a disastrous decision(like election of Hitler) then its a folly of Democracy. You cannot retroactively start calling Hitler’s election as non-democratic election.
If there is a war, and one guy convinces people that only he can save them, and everyone votes for him and he turns the country into a Jailhouse, he still was a democratically elected leader at the time of his election. That is what Democracy is. If you don’t like maybe you should stop supporting Democracy then, rather than defending and apologizing for it.
India came out of British Rule, and there were numerous Jagirdars, Zamindars, Chaudharis, Khan Bahadurs, Nawabs who owned huge tracts of land given to them by Britishers(or the held it before and throughout the British rule). When the first democratic election like that takes place, people are almost overwhelmingly going to vote for the candidate who promises the peasants(or the people in maximum numbers) a part from the owner’s property.
Similar effects were seen in almost all the countries who have had a feudal past, like most of the latin american countries. I am not saying that Nehru had no involvement in making India Socialist, but what I am trying to say is that Indians liked all what he had to offer. There was no such thing as “imposing Socialism”.
This is not Marxist view, it was Murray Rothbard’s observation. He quotes in his book “The Ethics of Liberty” an eminent Mexican Left-wing intellectual Carlos Fuentes:
The point is, no politician in India can impose Socialism over Indian people against their will, just like nobody can impose Capitalism on them against their will. @Arvind Said:
I don’t disagree based on generalized notion that people generally have had more economic freedom under monarchs than under many of the third world nations all over the world, though I don’t know specifically how much economic freedom did people had in India.
I presumed that you considered taxation by state as justified, but I am glad that you don’t.
But then you do consider river to be a public property, or a property which can never be claimed by a single individual. You consider it a theft if a movie theater owner demands money from you for watching a movie in his theater. And this time I am not assuming, I am inferring from your previous statement that alleged “pirates” are extortion gangs.
How about this, there is a jungle out there, and someone puts a fence around it. Now you wanna go through that, and this guy demands money from you for using his jungle. Is that extortion according to you?
Avin Says:
September 13th, 2009 at 3:01 am Actually you are all wrong, I AGREE with this article. Black money is hidden in swiss banks. They have a special banking policy or may i say a rule from the swiss government of money protection. what ever people do like call inter-pol or the scotland yard they have 0 right of getting details or infromation about the money. like Doud Ibrahim all his money are in swiss banks.renegade_division Says:
September 13th, 2009 at 3:09 am @AvinI don’t know what are you talking about. Yes there is money stored in Swiss bank(black or otherwise), unless the money was stolen from a legitimate owner(tax evaded money is not stole money) Swiss Banks do not return the money.
Swiss law protects their banks because their government does not interfere in the operations of their private citizens like how we prefer to do it in our country.
Why do we have Dalai Lama in our country? Why do we have Tasleema Nasrin in our country? Because the crimes for which these people are being hunted our not crimes according to our country. We don’t harbor International Terrorists, because they have killed people and we don’t justify that, but Dalai Lama and Tasleema Nasrin have not committed any crime, but they will be killed if they return to their countries. Similarly tax evasion is not crime in Switzerland, its our country which is chasing honestly earned money and calling it dishonestly earned money.
darshit patel Says:
November 11th, 2009 at 4:34 am To get the money back…india have to made a law..that money of indian people deposite in europian country is to be punised. That means legally any europian country can’t depisite the money…And the swiss bank also have to give the all the money of indian pepole back to government of india..
SO..then government have 71 lack cores …so india becomes tax free country for 10 years…
So in this 10 years people becomes richer..and india can grow more fater than any other country…
Renegade Division Says:
November 12th, 2009 at 9:42 amYou don’t get the problem dude. India is on a fiat currency system, this means that Indian rupee is not backed by anything, RBI can print any amount of money they want out of thin air(yeah they have some sort of requirement of having Rs 350 Crore worth Gold, but we have trillions of rupees in circulation).
We don’t really need that money, even if we get all that money, I don’t understand why people say that we will be able to pay off all our debt and/or no taxes will have to be paid. Who created the deb? The government. Who charges the tax? The government. The entity who created the massive debt will readily and happily create more debt, and even if they are not charging any tax for 10 years(which I hardly believe), what will happen after 10 years?
In fact because people are not feeling tax burden then the government will start increasing their expenditure and will start to charge a really small tax within 5 years and by the end of 10th year they will be already charging you half of what they used to.
The problem isn’t that we need something which someone else has but we don’t, (that’s just a complete lack of understanding of money), but if not paying taxes and not having national debt is so good then why not try to do some thing about it? Why not try to reduce the national debt by putting a stop on the increase in the size of the government? Why not make them reduce their expenditures and reduce our taxes?
I mean I may understand you want govt to run Police/courts/army, but why the hell govt is running post office, BSNL, Railways? Wouldn’t we be better if those sectors were privatized(or as I refer to them ‘liberalized’)??
Think about it. Only time Indians worry about National debt is when Swiss are going to pay for it. The only time not paying taxes will bring prosperity when Swiss are paying for our govt’s expenditure.
Why not force government to reduce its size rather than waiting for a foreign govt come help us out? Why not stop paying taxes like Gandhi did?
Indian Says:
January 31st, 2010 at 3:29 am @Renegade DivisionIncreased money supply does causes inflation. So lets suppose we get $1.4 trillion back from the Swiss, cant RBI just buy gold without causing inflation because the money need not be circulated. Besides there will be no speculation since that money not printed suddenly, and hence the Rupee wont be impacted.
I don’t understand your logic, are you saying that money can’t be converted into anything tangible and so just let that money go ?
Surya Prakash Loonker Says:
May 2nd, 2010 at 7:08 am Jago Party promises Rs. 2.5 lakhs for each Indian family and no taxes for Indians for 30 yearsSurya Prakash Loonker of Jago Party is demanding that money stashed by Indians in tax havens across the world should be brought back to the country. The black money and corruption money lying in bank accounts in Switzerland and other countries could be used to eradicate poverty and illiteracy in India. According to popular belief, it would be in the region of Rs.72,80,000 crores ($1,456 billion). If this money is brought from foreign banks to India, every family in this country would get nearly Rs two-and-a- half lakhs, national debt will be liquidated and for 30 years continuously the people would get a tax free budget. Baba Ramdev’s Swabhiman Manch, which is a NGO turned political party, is also demanding that corruption and black money sitting in foreign banks of Indian politicians and businessman rightfully belongs to the people of India. Jago Party will ensure that this money is brought back to India in its 1st year of forming the central govt and distributed to Indians.
Surya Prakash Loonker´s last undefined ..Response cached until Mon 3 @ 13:07 GMT (Refreshes in 23.99 Hours)
brijesh singh Says:
June 17th, 2010 at 12:43 pm I feel ashamed to be in this country. I have struggled all my life with poor school, poor road, bad water. I was still proud of this country, thinking reason behind it is 1000 year slavery. The reason of my struggle and 100 billion people struggle is 50 years of Fu*kocracy.Why will ruling govt want to bring that money back. And what will that change? People will find other bank.nd why will govt make tax for the rich efficient?Fundamental problem is attitude, god only knows how that will change. How can someone sleep with the guilt of keeping 100billion people in poverty?A
China is better, communism is better, naxal is better, monarch is better, hippocrate is better, even vietnam is better than this “F*ckocracy”.
Renegade Division Says:
June 21st, 2010 at 9:37 pmFor someone who uses so many f words, you sure hell didn’t the article(because the article is explaining you exactly the opposite thing you are talking about.
http://www.reasonforliberty.com/current-affairs/how-to-get-back-indias-money-from-swiss-banks.html